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Compact and lightweight for better handling (2.6 kg) Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. > The fact that the EP8 motor uses the same mounting points as the old E8000 motor means there are a few bikes out there that were anticipating will be updated with the new motor like the Norco Sight VLT and Range VLT. 3. - Range estimation is not reliable. Think of the classic couple with fit 100kg male with big backpack and 60 kg female with smaller backpack. It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. The cheapest Specialized Levo is the Expert model, which sells for just shy of $16K. I have tested a few ones and to me best one is Specialized in terms of ridding feeling and refinement. And more power requires more juice. Was thinking the same thing. The versatile and powerful SHIMANO EP8 e-bike system can be found on a wide range of brands and models. While weve certainly been impressed by the power, ride feel and tuneability of the Shimano EP8 system, how does it stack up against the likes of Bosch and Brose/Specialized? capacity longer. And just read any car review of the blend between regenerative braking and hydraulic, then decide whether you want a computer deciding to regen as you roll off a drop regen braking is pretty much impossible on an ebike as it requires the use of a direct drive motor. I have this motor. The downside for Bosch is that its display options leave a lot to be desired. Contrast that with the recently released Vitus E-Sommet VRX with EP8, 630Wh battery and similar travel and attitude for 5,199, . Wowzers! Certainly of all the full-power motors weve tested, Shimano EP8 affords the most seamless feel as the power fades in and out around the assistance cutoff. Display integration is still the best on the market, even if it only shows five bars of battery level and could easily integrate some more user-friendly features. Their new ride algorithms make the EP8 one of the most natural feeling motors out there, with plenty of power to propel the bike over obstacles, even if Bosch and Brose are still a bit punchier and deliver slightly more power. I have never posted a comment here on pinkbike, however this article in particular is hitting a nerve. What this article says to me is that ebikes are no where never the level of refinement that I would require to give up a normal bike. You can't imagine what kind of thought must have gone behind that response? With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. Simply named by Specialized as the 2.2, the motor continues to offer 90Nm of peak torque, and externally it has the same mounting points and overall shape. Currently, I own two e-bikes with a new 2022 Moustache Samedi 26 Fat 4 with the Bosch Motor on its way. This is a Class 1 e-bike motor with a maximum assist level of 20 MPH. Weve been living with the Shimano EP8 motor for six months now across three different bikes; the Merida eOne-Sixty, the Polygon Mt Bromo, and the Canyon Spectral:ON. For riders scoping out bigger rides than that, youll want to consider dialling down the Assistance Character to improve efficiency. . Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. Tackle steep climbs and tough trails with full confidence thanks to 85Nm maximum torque. Let us know what those are so we can demand them! Don't all e-bikes feature walk assist? Thus when I'm carrying a spare battery I can get up to 60 mile rides in, which e-bike or not, is still a hell of a day in the saddle. The maximum rider support was raised to 400%, compared to the E8000's 300%. The svelte motor casing provides more clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes with shorter chainstays. "While we dont expect people to ride with their phone on their handlebars when mountain biking" - Buddy, you must not have seen many e-bike riders. And with brands such as Merida and Canyon making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the whole arrangement is quite tidy. Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. Couldn't agree more. Ebikes are cool but not quite refined enough to jump in yet. Get directions. There are 5 levels of adjustment from Mild to Quick, with the highest setting requiring only a small rotation with light pedal force to engage the motor. It's kinda frustrating. As mentioned earlier, the Bosch motor does feel punchier than Shimano EP8, with noticeably stronger support at lower cadences. What's your experience on this? And we certainly wouldnt be upset if Shimano could quieten down the clacking noise. That would be awesome to do laps on. It features the new Shimano EP8 motor and a 630wh battery. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? This reduced the tendency for the front wheel to lift on really steep tech climbs. @tomdesoals: Yeah, I get that now that bikes have become more silent anything new that makes noise can become annoying. Weve found the first two settings to be too weak for e-MTB use, though conversely the highest setting can feel a little too peaky for some riders. Shimano Steps E8036 E-Bike Battery 36V 17.5Ah 630Wh - Black. Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. - Can we have remaining battery displayed as a percentage please? Set as my REI. Along with a new larger 630Wh battery option, plus updated hardware and software, Shimano certainly hasnt held back with its much-anticipated return fire on the highly competitive and fast-moving electric mountain bike market. The lowest setting sees the motor responding slower to your pedalling inputs. The new magnesium drive unit casing design delivers a 300g weight loss in a 10-percent smaller form factor. As it stands, you have to use the small button at the base of the display to manually scroll through additional pages just to see your cadence, estimated range and the time. Same with brose 2.1 & their motor failures. However the motor operation itself is fabulous, smooth, powerful, feels natural when you ride, you can cover ground like crazy in this thing. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable what you see is what you get. This means that if you ride in the default Trail and Boost settings, youll actually end up with a similar total range as the old E8000 motor, albeit with the benefit of more power and assistance throughout the ride. You also need a special key to release the battery from the frame, which were not fans of, at least for a mountain bike anyway. The charge bars are a major issues though on the 8000, after a bit of use the battery becomes extremely unpredictable. You can't call an e-bike rider lazy when they try to overtake you making this sound. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. Personally, were ok with downshifting and spinning our way up a steep incline its better for the health of your knees, and its likely better for the health of the motor too. Like their . Specialized is close to this. Shimano battery issues with EP8 motor. The Levo SL? In comparison, you can get a Polygon Mt Bromo N8 with a Shimano EP8 motor for $7,899 AUD. The new magnesium drive unit casing design delivers a 300g weight loss in a 10-percent smaller form factor. I feel like I've been missing out on so much! Also a big improvement over the prior motor is that the EP8 freewheels easily, so on flats or downhill you can blast away without motor resistance. Bailey's Crossroads, VA 22041. Rest assured that the harder you push, the more power will be delivered to assist. Weve ridden the latest Bosch Performance CX Gen 4 motor on a variety of e-MTBs, including the Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 and the Trek Rail. Then theres the BT-8035-L battery, which is a 504Wh battery that shares the same physical dimensions as the 630Wh version. leftside; Nov 30, 2021; Replies 23 Views 4K . Along with the fault-free performance weve experienced so far, wed have no hesitation in recommending a bike built around Shimano EP8 this is a high quality and well-rounded e-MTB system. The updated Trail mode is brilliant, and the option to fine-tune each assist mode is a welcome feature for achieving the desired feel while maximising range. The 630Wh battery is physically larger than than the previous 504Wh battery, though Merida obviously knew the bigger battery was coming when it launched the eOne-Sixty last year. Can't see the equivalent of a ribbed chainstay protector happening. Start with a full battery, select the Trail mode, and see how far you can go before you run out of juice. Unlike Bosch, Shimano's EP8 motor can be paired with third-party batteries. As for the test on range, do one in Boost and one in Trail. Bunny hops were absolutely a blast on this bike. The way the 2.2 motor smooths out un-smooth rider input is very impressive, giving it the most natural feel on the trail of any full-power motor weve tested. For a mechanic, mechanical noise is a no-no by the end of the ride Id be destroyed mentally! I think the only way it can get even close (And still doesn't) to that statement, is riding 25km on an analogue, or 50km on an ebike. @tomdesoals: I don't quite get it though. Over the past six months of riding, the Shimano EP8 motor has really impressed us with just how much punch it delivers from such a lightweight and compact package. BAE Systems, Inc. is the U.S. subsidiary of BAE Systems plc, an international defense, aerospace and security company which delivers a full range of products and services for air, land and naval forces, as well as advanced electronics, security, information technology solutions and customer support services. If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. I find the author of this article is overly picky. From my experience range is determined by climbing and cadence. When youre at those 30-40km/h descending speeds, EP8 doesnt punish you for stamping on the pedals to build some extra speed in the lead-up to a jump or dropoff. So paired with Shimano's biggest 630wh battery it ensures the Bullit is fully equipped for . At 52+ lbs, you're going to be using that motor every pedal stroke. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. I have no personal experience riding with pedal assist but when I hear the high whiz from the motor I think that would drive me mad too. This is due to the internal clutch mechanism, which allows the motor to disconnect from the cranks when not in use, thereby decreasing drag and resistance. Did some rides on a scott e-genius 920(2020) and my biggest one I did was a 115 km with 2000 meters of ascent ,19 km average speed,all in the eco mode and riding some rocky terrain with some tarmac ,fire roads ,very mixed terrain ,and I did got impressed with the power and the range ,didnt got me so tired on the legs its most a cardio ,but dont put more power on them and no more battery capacity,cause it wil make them almost a dirt bike :-((. Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. We're conveniently located at 1071 West Broad Street, where the W&OD Trail overpass crosses West Broad at mile marker 7 and one mile from the West Falls Church Metro stop. That Shimano response was pure gold. and The Shimano EP8 battery is 26% more capacity but the range is only 16% more. But would the noise stop us from recommending an EP8-equipped bike? The Kiox head unit has a nice colour screen with plenty of useful data on it, but were not sold on the magnetic attachment and the fact that the motor wont turn on without the head unit. OSAKA, Japan (August 31, 2020) Its first mountain bike specific drive unit, SHIMANO STEPS DU- E8000 set the standard for real off road performance by preserving the chainstay length and Q-factor used on traditional mountain bikes and using an intelligent assist algorithm that prioritized a natural off-road riding experience. It can now double the range compared to trail mode, becoming a very useful tool for maximizing ride time. On the trail the tone of the clack is a little deeper than the EP8 drive unit, but the cause is the same. Shimano Consolidates Entry- to Mid-Level Groupsets With New CUES Drivetrains, Opinion: Five Things The Bike Industry Could Do Better, Throwback Thursday: A Brief History of Direct Mount Derailleurs, Buying a Bike From a Shop Versus Buying Online, DH Bike Review: Canfield's Jedi Masters Rough Terrain, Review: Mythos 3D-Printed Titanium Stem is My Kind of Excess, DH Bike Review: Orange 279 - A Staple of British Downhill Racing, www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wanneroo/bicycle-parts-and-accessories/men-s-petrol-bike-mountain-bike-/1259285475, www.cyclevolta.com/story/ebike-components/hold-up-shimanos-new-emtb-motor, www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/solarbike/maxun-solar-bike. According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and were inclined to believe that claim. This bike also gets a Shimano drivetrain but it's upgraded to the SLX range with some Deore sneaking its way in, taking the place of the cassette and chain. On my e8000, my impression was (now on a Trek Rail w a Bosch gen 4) that if you were at two bars, you were really at one, and if you were at one, youd better be a couple of blocks from home. Can I give 100 upvotes please? if you success increase speed. You are using an out of date browser. Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. You miss that obscure offering from Specialized? Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. Compatible with all Shimano drivetrains whether Di2 or mechanical, derailleur or internally. Our batteries are designed to keep you out on the trails and riding further. View your system settings, assist levels and ride metrics via a 1.6 (inch) color LCD screen for easy on-trail reference. The SC-EM800 computer communicates wirelessly with Shimanos E-TUBE PROJECT app via Bluetooth, allowing riders to instantly customize power characteristics on demand. BT-E8016 External Battery With 630Wh, you'll be able to ride further without having to stop and recharge. Also did some trail work. . On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable at all. Side-by-side, the EP8 motor is slimmer around the belly and so offers a skerrick more ground clearance. Once again still want to know; is the BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen? Overall the tuning adjustments are quite noticeable, though wed always recommend only adjusting one parameter at a time to isolate its effect on the trail. 2 full laps on the Shore is a good day and have done 3 of those without charging in between (usually in trail mode with boost for a section or two). Rattling noise, you've seen (or heard) any of the Semenuk RAW100 videos? "Unquestionably, Shimano has the cleanest and sleekest display integration on the market". PRODUCT Great for climbing, on the descents the weight changes how I ride, not better or worse. Component categories and series of GRAVEL, Component categories and series of LIFESTYLE, Component categories and series of E-BIKE, Your smartphone to cycling computer on the bike, SHIMANO bicycle ride data collection/analysis service, SHIMANO AGAINST THE TAMPERING WITH E-BIKES, * BT-E8036 for Japan (16.2 Ah, 583 Wh) ** By EC-E8004 (*** In case of 100 V AC) **** with SM-BTE80 or EW-CP100, BM-E8030-A BM-E8030-B BM-E8031-A BM-E8031-B, Durable battery retains max. The MY21 model also features an updated build kit that. Rob has ridden the bike, so make You must log in or register to reply here. With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. A dynamo and regenerative braking is the ONLY thing stopping from buying an e-bike? Its the Orbea Rise that achieves the most discreet integration however, with a frame that was purpose-built around the smaller EP8 motor, rather than having been retrofitted from a previous E8000 drive unit. I suppose pedal assist allows you to tackle the more fun/steep/tech climbs but to be effective it needs to be subtle too. There are 10 levels of adjustment, from Eco to Powerful. Good thing with Shimano is warranty,at least here in Madrid is almost instantaneous. Chain rings and spider are common with other STEPS systems and support chain lines of 50, 53, and 56.5mm for 9, 10, 11, and 12 speeds, A new assist switch (SW-EM800) features larger buttons with greater tactile feedback, A new chain guide (CD-EM800) matches the design of the simple and compact CD-MT800 in a, New EW-SD300 e-tube wires are faster due to increased bandwidth and provide greater, opportunities for new features in the future while reducing component and wire weight, Mounting bolts are located in the same position as other STEPS drive units allowing bike manufacturers the ability to design a common frame platform for multiple price points, SHIMANO SERVICE CENTERS So despite being an engineer the non-linear noisy nature of the reporting makes it very difficult to plan rides and I almost always finish the last few km without assistance for bigger rides. Shimano couples this introduction with an updated E-TUBE PROJECT system. At the same time, riders will notice an increase in range simply because the new assist algorithm doesnt waste energy when it isnt needed. In addition to the challenge of having remaining battery life displayed as five bars, the range estimation tends to drop quite quickly during the final two bars. system so what I'd like to see is if in a real world ride the increased battery capacity and reduced drag of the EP8 and 630wh battery lead to significantly greater range and vertical climbed. (Subttulos en Espaol) - YouTube #ebike #emtb*** Subttulos en Espaol, pincha en ajustes***Sam's Bikes is a dedicated Ebike Mountain. Shimano Cues - New 9/10/11 speed lower tier drivetrain components. I wish real bike reviews were this detailed. Perfect? . Yes, I have done today 97km today and I have 62% battery charge left. The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. Shimano has its own 504Wh and 630Wh units, too. Appreciate the level of detail in this article, good work. Can someone make a bike with 50% - 100% assist? BT-E8036, SHIMANO STEPS - Integrated Type Battery for Down Tube - 630 Wh. From what I get from the article, what would actually bother me more is how it kicks in from a standstill or trackstand. Plus the battery wasn't completely drained so 2400/2500hm seems to be possibly. Its almost as if the battery drains faster in that final 20%. The Shimano EP8 user interface is similarly elegant in its design. Those Merida ebikes ride quite good too. 2 bars left on the Shimano display. While I am at the age/account to have one, I couldn't imagine riding longer than my 630W battery lasted, i don't think i would be able to walk for a week. Specializeds Mission Control app continues to be the market leader in terms of connectivity, tuning options and user-friendliness. So when the new version is so much better Refinement is all relative. I've had a go on ebikes and think they're fantastic and good fun. Thanks to a new seal structure and gear design, drag is reduced by 36- percent, getting much closer to the normal pedaling feeling of a traditional bike. Chuckle. *When compared with a standard Shimano EP8/630Wh battery combo. Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? The Purion controller is vastly simpler and easy to read, but it looks cheap and its bulky, making it an awkward fit with brake and dropper levers. - High quality display & controller Range will depend on your riding style, ambient temperature and weight. ON CFR with a 720Wh battery is 21.84 kg, 610g lighter than its 630Wh battery-rocking predecessor. Assist Switch Battery Drivetrain Tackle steep climbs and tough trails with full confidence thanks to 85Nm maximum torque. As they say, power is nothing without control. In the lower settings, youll have to pedal really hard to get maximum support the motor. Canyon has released a lighter, longer-range Spectral:ON eMTB with downtube capacity for a 720Wh or a 900Wh battery. With all 85 Nm of torque being available in TRAIL mode and the algorithm continually increasing the assist ratio, its possible to ride all but the most demanding terrain without changing modes. Show more less. Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. Across our range of E-MTBs, you'll find both 504 Wh and 630 Wh internal battery options with some models in our Torque:ON range including a dual battery option for long-lasting adventures that extend into and beyond golden hour. . > No, not at all. If you aren't climbing steeps and requiring the torque, you would get way longer distance. Overall it is a very refined system though. On one ride with the Canyon Spectral:ON, the range estimation initially showed 25km. Where the EP8 motorisnt quieter than its predecessor however, is when youre not pedalling. Our batteries are renowned for keeping you out on the trails and riding further. Didn't think I'd ever see that. @tomdesoals: That excuse that Shimano put out by their customer service dept . Just kidding! I would have respected Shimano more if they owned it and were more forthright about working to resolve it. NEWS It may not display this or other websites correctly. SL ebikes such as the Orbea Rise use a 360Wh unit, while Norco's. Looks like Rocky(Dyname), Giant(Yamaha) and Specialized(Brose) are in for 2021 and Shimano and Bosch are out. EP8 EP800 Series: Color: Standard: Average weight * 0.31 (Power cable: 250 mm) * 0.32 (Power cable: 400 mm) Remarks I once did 2300hm with bt-8010 and mostly Eco low but also some trail and boost. available in a new 160mm length in addition to 165, 170, 175. Also choose from a wide variety of crank, chain and chainring options. Like their predecessors, all Shimano STEPS batteries are extremely long-lasting, taking up to 1000 full charge cycles while maintaining 60-percent of their original capacity, double the charge cycle capacity of other batteries, often outlasting the average e-mountain bike ownership. EP8 delivers up to 85 Nm of torque, a 21-percent increase over the STEPS E8000 motor platform. When they start looking (and weighing closer to regular trail bikes then I'll consider. Visit the high-res gallery for more images from this review. I also have Commencal 2021 meta power sx. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. The Ride The confident geometry, with its agility and stability is better than ever, and for the 2022 line up, we've upped the travel both front and rear, while keeping . And compared to E8000, the new EP8 motor is considerably more powerful on the trail, whilst retaining the smooth and intuitive delivery that weve always dug about Shimanos drive units. All you guys "waiting" to get a ebike are blowing it..the bikes are refined trek rail no problems..going around the country slaying every trail I see chugging beer and laughing at all u haters.. believe me I guys will all be on one sooner than later. Additionally, the maximum torque limit can be set anywhere between 20-85Nm allowing riders to increase their riding range in TRAIL or BOOST modes or increase the off-road capabilities of ECO mode. The touch points are all up to typical Shimano standards of quality, though we would like to see improvements to the functionality of the display unit, notably having battery life shown as a percentage. All I could find is that bike manufacturers are to hold off selling the EP8 until Oct/Nov while they addresses some final issues. A little more overrun from the EP8 motor, and even the option to tune that attribute via the E-Tube app, would be stupendous! 214 Occasionally it can feel a little peakier compared to EP8, but for the most part both motors are easy to get used to within a few rides. What this article says to me is no wonder people make fun of mountain bikers. No mention on the worldwide recall of the motor due to issues? So why has no one made a motorized gearbox yet? If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. The biggest change has been with Trail mode, which now gives you access to the full 85Nm of torque if youre pedalling hard enough. The clicking sound has no effect on the function or durability of the drive unit. Still, given the lengths that bike and drivetrain manufacturers have gone to stealthify mountain bikes over the past few years, we found the noisy EP8 motor to be infuriating during the first few rides just as we did with the Bosch Gen 4. Pros - extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020! I'm sure a dynamo can be integrated somehow with the hub rotations without causing a lot of drag. However, where the Bosch Gen 4 feels like a diesel engine at low RPMs, the sporty EP8 drive unit still prefers spinning at a higher cadence. A bike that weighs almost half as much as the rider. Nothing like on an ebike. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. Probably more than some rattle. Estimated range is 5125 feet for EP8 motor with 630wh So these results are shocking so this test needs to be repeated. Upon a little digging on the internet, it appears that this functionality is only on offer for Garmin users. Hopefully this option will open up to non-Garmin users in the future. Riders can save all of their settings as a profile in the E-TUBE PROJECT app and choose two of their favorite profiles to load onto the bike for easy access on the fly through the handlebar mounted display. Its considerably bulkier than Shimano EP8, dominating the Levos frame profile while also putting limitations on rear wheel clearance. The complaints of charge bars on the display and the bike starting without any assistance are non issues for me. JavaScript is disabled. Assistance Start Here you can tweak how quickly the motor responds within the first pedal stroke. Also worth noting is that you can create two riding profiles, which you can alternate between via the menu and push-button on the display. it's been quite awhile and still no fix . Really? What settings you end up will depend on your personal riding style, and your expectations of range and power output. I also got it second hand as I just can't afford new. The EP8 is also tuned to give more power in Trail mode without affecting range. This also allows brands to more neatly integrate the motor into their frame designs, Canyon having done a particularly swell job with the Spectral:ON. I don't know anyone that likes a bike that rattles in any way or form. This can allow an easy transition between two different riders with different preferences, or it can be used to build a commuting mode and a mountain biking mode. You can display way more metrics on it too, and battery is usefully displayed as a percentage. 5Nm doesnt sound like much on paper, but on the trail the Levos 2.2 motor is noticeably musclier than Shimano EP8, particularly at the extreme ends of the cadence spectrum. It isnt a huge difference, but sometimes its just enough for your rear wheel to make it up and over a stubborn tree root or rock ledge. Wait, 23-27kms? Is it possible 37-43miles + 6500 ft (eco mode) ? But yeah, different people. This says the E8000 has more efficient and will have more range with the same battery size. By their own standards of non-assist components, this motor is not worthy of the shimano name. I want to use the Shimano EP8 motor for a small production of solar bikes. Along with the EP8s magnesium casting, heat sinks and polished logos, it affords a classy look not an easy feat for an e-MTB. @tomdesoals: Ah, thanks I get it. When riding identical bikes in my experience the lighter rider has more battery left even if he or she uses higher assist modes. Continuing a theme for electric . Just got my first 29er. - Lightweight and small form factor Truly unfortunate you lost it. EP8 Technical Features Drive unit weight: 2.6 kg compared to 2.9 kg for DU-E8000 Case material: Magnesium 10-percent less volume compared to DU-E8000 Maximum torque output: 85 Nm Maximum power output: 500 W 36-percent reduction in drag Greatly reduced driving noise, quieter than DU-E7000