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Note that most air intakes tend to produce less drag than aerodynamic nose cones and pointy cockpits, especially shock cone intakes. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Or maybe launching it in a vertical, Space Shuttle-style config. As lift increases you remove some strain on the gear, however you've just increased the amount of sag. LV-N "Nerv" nuclear thermal rockets are commonly used on SSTOs for the rocket stage if Rapiers are not used. 2 will usually do nicely, but 3 or 4 are usually better (but of course heavier, and this tutorial assumes you use 2). Note: The large delta wing will ensure you won't backflip. Maybe ;making the tailwheel less stiff would help, too. With initial passes, you start off with a periapsis at 50-60 km and gradually lower your apoapsis until you're in an almost circularized low orbit and then transition to your usual re-entry approach. Note that a Wheesley or Goliath engine can reverse its thrust to allow rapid deceleration during landing, but these are not recommended for a spaceplane due to being unreasonably heavy and inducing excessive drag when attempting to transition to orbital velocities. An aircraft without control surfaces is like a rocket without RCS or reaction wheels - it will hardly turn and will be equally hard to control (perhaps even impossible!). Landing is hard. Hello, I am having a small problem with a plane I have built. This is an important distinction; a plane with great lift rating but without any control surfaces will fly easily but will be almost uncontrollable. This page was last edited on 17 December 2021, at 13:14. Obviously jet engines are air-breathing, so you need to include air intakes in your spaceplane. You probably won't have much luck landing the fuselage intact if your Mk3 plane gets its wings scorched off on reentry. Now I'll walk you through a basic aircraft; fancy stuff like science equipment can be added later. Congratulations! Here are a few pictures of it: Take a picture with center of mass and center of lift turned on. When flying straight the plane is pretty stable but pitching up causes a sharp roll and I cant figure out why. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. if its too far behind plane cannot lift. All I have are the parts from the Aerodynamics tech and the gear bay (wheels). It doesn't really matter if you angle them or not, there is not a single configuration for the wheels that can work on all plane parts. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Basic_Plane_Design&oldid=97453, In the front of the plane - In this position, the control surfaces are also known as , In the back of the plane, on the tail - The most usual position; usually, close to the rudder. Paste as plain text instead, Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. It Flips Up And Towards The Opposite Direction. https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/124380-wing-lift-amp-wing-lift-to-drag-ratio-charts/, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Spaceplane_basics&oldid=100619. If you plan on either dropping off cargo or picking up cargo and traveling with it, you'll generally want to locate your cargo bay at the middle of your center of gravity. Display as a link instead, Your very own tutorial.). It can be helpful to use a slightly taller front landing gear and slightly shorter rear landing gears so that your fuselage points slightly upward on the ground, thereby increasing the angle of attack of your wings while on the ground. Also, excessive use of the rudder usually causes the plane to spin out of control and crash. First thing you're going to want to do in the SPH is turn on your centre of mass indicator (this is the point that the plane will rotate around when rolling, pitching, or yawing) and your centre of lift indicator (the Aerodynamic Overlay). If, instead, all goes well, then once your jet engines have shut down you will need to start the second part of your space mission by switching to rockets. I removed them and it works fine now. You main problem is your landing gear. In vanilla KSP, wings have a predefined lift factor. 32.5K Downloads Updated Dec 11, 2014 Created Dec 11, 2014. An altitude set to 18,000 meters tops off at 19,000 meters and drops to 15,700 meters . Is there a way to rectify this problem. They sometimes coincide with ailerons on some, more space-economical, aircraft. (For test purposes, all aircraft are not pitched up and SAS is turned off. The design I used is similar to what I normally used for planes but I had to swap out parts and make it smaller to compensate for Career mode changes. * Gear not mounted to parts that will flex (e.g. So you want to make a plane but all your contraptions explode on the runway, crash into the runway a few seconds after taking off, crash into the side of the runway, crash into the ocean after doing a tight turn or otherwise fail to do what you intended? It is usually placed back because it can be placed further back than it is possible in the front (if it is placed in the front, it can obstruct the view of the pilot, which is undesired) as well as making the plane unstable (by the same effect that you would get if the center of lift (horizontal lifting surfaces) were in front of the center of mass, but with vertical surfaces). So the answer is: in the SPH, click on your front gear, set the spring to .5 and set the damper to .5 -- then save it and give it another shot at launching. Consider placing your rear landing gears close to the spaceplane's center of mass, but be careful to avoid an engine collision with the runway. They sometimes coincide with elevators. It is also said that a good landing is one you can walk away from. See if there is still a problem when only travelling slowly, say <20m/s. At that point, the plane could potentially start spinning around as a result of losing the benefit of the gimbal control of the engine. After a successful touchdown, high-speed motion on the runway (let alone uneven ground) can be unstable, causing the aircraft to careen to one side or the other, potentially resulting in loss of a wing and sometimes the entire aircraft. Go on, and take the plane capsule which looks like a converted fuel storage device Contents 1 Making a fuselage 2 Understanding Lift 3 Control Surfaces 3.1 Elevator 3.2 Aileron 3.3 Rudder 4 Landing gear Making a fuselage Any plane needs speed - so you need thrust (usually). Similar principles apply when finding suitable landing sites away from the KSC. This thread is quite old. and our I am accelerating it to over 200m/s on the runway just to test the stability of those wheels since the faster you go, the more likely the plane will wobble and flip on the runway. * Unlock steering and disable brakes on front gear. How to keep an airplane stable on the runway in Kerbal Space - Arqade I have built lots of spaceplanes. Real planes do this as well. It is also advisable to add some control surfaces to your plane to have some control in the atmosphere: you can manually add them to the wings or choose winglets with effective control surfaces, like the Standard Canard. However, make sure to use struts when placing landing gears on the far edges of a multi-part wing because they may sag enough to cause a fuselage collision with the runway during landing. You can post now and register later. You can deploy your chutes just prior to touchdown for rapid deceleration. Brakes in the back keep you stable. Valve Corporation. Remember how you want your center of lift/drag to be behind the center of gravity? The most dangerous part of a spaceplane flight is returning from orbit. 2. When landing, you can achieve the highest lift for a given speed by raising the total angle of attack of your wings to 30 degrees (although this induces a great deal of drag). Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Landing also often requires rapid deceleration to avoid running off the end of the runway or crashing into a slope when landing on open terrain. If your Mk3 design jam-packed full of heavy gear can't seem to survive reentry, one option might be to reduce the payload a bit. Privacy Policy. If you forget to put an air intake on your airplane, don't worry! Your previous content has been restored. Thank you and happy landings. I have never successfully landed a single aircraft before as they all tend to roll over when landing at high speed. Powered by Invision Community. 5.whether the body you anchor the landing gears to are firm. Plane bouncing on takeoff - Kerbal Space Program Forums - Make sure the landing gear is as close to the center of gravity as possible, just slightly behind it (for nosewheel aircraft). I was attaining high speeds on the runway without getting off the ground, which made the plane yaw back and forth. "Type E" is the smallest you should have, and you want a set of those connected at the back of the fuselage. Close to empty tanks will allow you to fly slower, decelerate faster, and reduce touchdown strain. To takeoff and land at low speed, it's helpful to rotate the wings so the leading edge is slightly above the trailing edge. A Mk1 Cockpit, two Mk 1 Liquid Fuel Tanks, and then cap the back with a round nose cone (use the A/D keys to rotate it as necessary). However, they do take a conventional mix of fuel and oxidizer, and thus require much more fuel mass than jet engines or LV-N Nerv. @TheEnvironmentalist There is one more method I'm sure would work in your case, although I didn't write about it because I think it's cheesy and wouldn't solve the root problem. Landing speed (minimum speed for level flight) can be reduced by adding components to increase maneuverability, by using larger wings, by increasing wing angle of attack on the fuselage (3-5 degrees is the recommended range for a spaceplane to achieve the best lift-to-drag ratio [source]), and by decreasing the weight of the aircraft. As such, you will need various control surfaces. Here's a quick installment in to the. So yesterday I was playing some KSP2, and resumed the game from a save where I had landed in Duna. [KSP 2] I'm trying really hard to make a Mun capable ship but this rocket . Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. As such, don't use control surfaces as substitutes for wings, and don't use more control surfaces than you need. Your link has been automatically embedded. Mk2 aircraft may be able to get away with it, but even then it's often best to space them further out. The issue is my plane rolls very sharply to the left any time I pitch up. . I had this one plane, very fast, It would go to 170 m/s on the runway then drop of the end and soar very nicely. It's strongly recommended to keep your landing gears well-spaced from each other to ensure that the aircraft will be difficult to roll into a collision. This page was last edited on 19 February 2020, at 07:08. The centre of mass was between the 2 landing gears. Any plane needs speed - so you need thrust (usually). Either one of those being misaligned will cause instability on the runway during takeoff (and the engines misaligned will cause flight problems). And above all: have fun! Install S5 moon rocket By lightbreaker_64. They are able to operate at higher altitudes and can even continue operating in a vacuum by switching to a rocket mode. Hopefully this gets you your first aircraft that can take off and land, which is the biggest hurdle to being able to make KSP aircraft. Or adding a RATO boosters. This is either a collider or design issue, if the craft doesn't have enough lift initially to get off the ground it will bounce a bit before taking off. Alternatively, you can try landing at higher speeds with your nose pointed further down, but this increases challenges with stability and deceleration while on the runway. if mounted on not struted part) 2. put your main gear slightly behind center of mass. Descending greater than -10 m/s usually makes a mess. EDIT: It was the b9 procedural wings. KSP short takeoff plane test | Simple Horten Ho 229 replica Keep your spaceplane pointed about 90 degrees above prograde so that the wings and body of your aircraft slow you down as much as possible. There are multiple ways to place them: Ailerons control the roll of the aircraft, and are (almost) always placed on the wings, as far out as possible and as centered (compared to the center of mass) as could be. T-1 "Dart" engines are unique amongst conventionally-fuelled rocket engines: They have close to the highest efficiency in both vacuum and low atmosphere. here are some images and a gif. Note that the lift rating does not mean that the wings will automatically lift a spaceplane into the air when it's moving forward. Unstable Aircraft: "FAR Firehound" (Stock). I dunno why but this picture makes the one side look like it is tipped in but I know they are straight, I believe it just the angle that the picture was taken that is causing it to look like this. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Saves a lot of headache in wheels placement. More mass will mean it takes more drag to slow down on reentry, which will mean you go faster at lower altitudes and experience more reentry heating. That way you can use aerodynamics to lower the tail, rather than trying to raise the nose. That will align with the craft axis. Tutorial: Spaceplane basics - Kerbal Space Program Wiki You can resolve the emergency by transferring fuel from rear fuel tanks to forward fuel tanks, but you should alter your design to bring your wings further back to prevent such incidents in the future. Next you need landing gear. This would indicate two problems. Flying a Space Station through a GAS GIANT! LV-N engines also have the advantage of using the same liquid for propellant that jet engines use for fuel. This tutorial was created primarily based on a Reddit post by the incredibly helpful u/AnArgonianSpellsword. Flying a Space Station through a GAS GIANT! - KSP - YouTube Now right click each elevon and the tail fin and set what movement each controls; the ones on the large wings control roll only, the ones on the back wings control pitch only, and the tail fin controls yaw only. I am definitely aware that there are multiple reasons as to why the plane flips. This is generally an issue of not spacing your landing gears out far enough apart. Be warned that if you do not provide sufficient air intakes for the engines you've placed, you may find that some of your engines shut down before others. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Your_First_Plane&oldid=103052. After placing wheels I always use the rotate gizmo on snap with absolute orientation. I have built lots of spaceplanes. Besides the good advice others have given, I would also be very careful with that little tailwheel. Here is your convenient solution to this problem! The tutorial below explains everything very well. All of these problems can be exacerbated or reduced by adjusting the amount of fuel in your tanks during landing. But also check to make sure that your wheels are placed symmetrically and your engines are aligned properly. When gear is placed, it has just one point of attachment. It is due to the spinning up of the engines. Check out the following guide for some good info: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures You want an elevon on each set of wings. To minimize drag, vertical tail fins can be kept minimal, since aircraft can be maneuvered adequately by roll and pitch alone. Upload or insert images from URL. It is advised to place your control surfaces as far from your center of mass as possible. Lift maxes out at 30 and declines beyond that point, so avoid excessive fuselage tilt.[1]. Try disabling friction control with on the front landing gears. However it's huge size can make it tricky to take off from the runway without destroying the engine. When I Start Why Engine, It Goes Straight But As Soon As I Takeoff. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Plane spins/lurches to the side during takeoff? When I use it for spaceplane guidance it keeps me on the correct heading, but the flight is very busy sine wave of a path. When your spaceplane rolls shortly after touchdown, veers to one side and then explodes on the runway, you have a problem with landing stability. This is most likely the standard jitterbugging problem. Your previous content has been restored. Do you have new pics after you moved the rear wheels forward? However, I want to place my wheels where i want to and not only on X parallel surfaces. Doesnt make sense so just do this: Nope that didn't solve anything, even when the plane is past the runway and gliding on the little bit of space before the ocean it will slowly lower to the ocean, what am I doing wrong? Managed to fix it with some different wings; idk what was going on with the other ones but I was just thr FAT aeroplane wings. The Mk1 fuselage parts only tolerate up to 2000K, while Mk2 fuselages tolerate up to 2500K, and Mk3 fuselages tolerate up to 2700K. I found biggest cause of this as well as not being able to possibly correct is having sas on during takeoff, make sure that is off during take off and should find problem is less likely to occur, but I too struggle to make working space planes even when center of lift, mass, thrust are all as needed. How do I fix this? The problem could be about the angle of wheels, though there could be more problems with the COM and wheels placement. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. To maximize lift, your aircraft should rest on the ground with the fuselage tilted upward at anywhere up to a 25-27 angle so that the wings will end up tilted back at up to 30. In fact, nothing will happen at all, and that's probably bad, so put an air intake on your plane anyway. For some reason, when the plane is trying to take off and pulling up, the plane begins to bounce on it's front wheels (the back wheel kicks up), whichhinders the plane taking off. Pasted as rich text. I have no problems using Mechjeb to launch rockets into orbit, rendezvousing and docking with other craft. Plane wobble during takeoff - KSP1 Gameplay Questions and Tutorials - Kerbal Space Program Forums Is there a way to place landing gear so that i can guarantee my plane can remain stable on the runway even at high speed in excess of 200m/s? A FedEx cargo plane in Austin nearly landed on a runway where a Southwest flight was preparing to take off. 4. I have also thought about a wider base. This aircraft can takeoff at just above 50 m/s and can glide for a few minutes without engine. (Yes, you personally, you lucky thing! The FedEx plane pulled back up in time to avoid a collision. Upload or insert images from URL. As you would expect, spaceplanes need wings: they have various shapes and dimensions, and they differ basically in lift rating: you will want to have enough lift to keep your fuselage approximately prograde during your ascent to orbit. I have done everything imaginable to try to remedy this problem. Just after having taken off, the plane will immediately start rolling to the right, and completely uncontrollably. This is just a general briefing section with lots of "to do" or "not to do" things: when you think you've got it, check the Aeris 4A tutorial mission to learn how to get into space easily. If there is, I would have found it long ago. Note that canards are somewhat more efficient than horizontal tail fins since canards provide an upward force with upward rotation, and downward force with downward rotation. As you approach 35-50 km, your aircraft will most likely level itself out, at which point you can try aiming about five degrees above the horizon line. Aim to get your speed below 50m/s, and have plenty of water ahead of you; keep the plane level, and pitch up to shed velocity. I also used Intake build aid to balance the intakes. One final point to consider is the mass you're planning to store in the fuselage. I have created planes that have landing gears place right under the wing tips but they still won't work. Note: This tutorial was last updated for version 1.7.2. KSP 2 speculation: I believe terraforming will be a feature of the game The problem could be due to several issues. Unfortunately, with only these basic parts, landing on the runway won't be easy; a viable alternative is to throttle down to nothing, then belly-flop in the ocean. I made a KSP replica of the Horten Ho 229 while trying to make a short takeoff plane.If you have any questions or suggestions, let me know in the comments.My. While having the same stock parts as in the VAB, spaceplane design is obviously quite different from pure rocket design. They could go up to 120 m/s on the runway and still not lift up. Your wings provide the lift, and they cant provide lift if your wheels are too far back because then your base is to stable and the craft wont pivot upwards. Before you can make a successful plane, you must understand what makes a plane go in places other than the ground - the wings. Symmetry placement should give you perfect symmetry, as far as the game is concerned. This ensures that your aircraft will go up once it achieves a high enough speed, and also helps with placing ailerons. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Angled landing gear create rotational force for whatever reason. I scoured the entire web for a solution, but found no working solution or at least dont work every time. First, I'm sure this is WAY overengineered, but I haven't gotten to the point of caring about that yet. Firstly you're going to want to make a short fuselage. The default max stress value is just ridiculous, its like flying in hair gel, everything gets torn apart so easily, like that will ever happen in real life. There are several forces in Kerbal Space Program which have an effect on the flight characteristics of SSTO craft. You should have something called an "Elevon 1"; this will be the moving part for your wings. It is also common to add an Inline Clamp-O-Tron, which, unlike all the other docking ports, can be placed in the middle of the spacecraft (a handy solution, since there is not much space at either end of the craft) to allow your plane to dock with space stations or other spacecrafts. ), Stable aircraft: "Untitled" (lost the file upon loading after aircraft), Stable jet car: "Untitled" (Lost the file), Speed over land > 350 m/s before veering off the runway, Sometimes Stable Spaceplane: "Hypersonic Experimental". That said, parachutes are an exceedingly effective means of reducing your stopping distance. My plane usually take off at a little over 120m/s. My spaceplanes keep drifting off runway during takeoff. What am I doing Kerbal Space Program 2's early access launch is only for seasoned Now put on center of mass and center of lift view, and move the delta wings until the center of lift is slightly behind of the center of mass - not in front, otherwise your aircraft will be able to easily flip out of control. And at the extreme, producing down force, which I'm sure would cause more gear issues. I can not get any aircraft-style spaceplane take off from the runway, they will stay on until the end, where the engines crash into the ground and explode. If the problem has to do with lift then travelling very slowly, possibly even slower than that, should counteract the effects of lift and you won't drift nearly as much. Keep in mind that lift rating and control surfaces are not connected: lift rating is basically the capacity of your wings to sustain the weight of your spaceplane, while control surfaces are parts of wing that can be moved to change the flow of the air around the plane and through this change a plane's direction, angle of attack or inclination. EDIT: So, I set the front landing gear spring and damper to 0.5, and also set the tail gear spring and damper to 2, and the problem was fixed! Let it get good and clear of the ground before applying any control to it. However, it's not a matter of "atmosphere or not", just a matter of air pressure which decreases rapidly with altitude. Keep at around 15 degrees to allow the plane to accelerate past 1000m/s. my planes keep flipping backwards on take off . If you can't slow down in time, you can simply flick your engines back on to take off and turn around for another try as you pass over the coast. But be careful and don't crash it! I dont really need 200m/s for take off. Firstly, inadequate air intakes for the number and type of engines you're using (causing some engines to shut down before others). I was wrong. Here is your convenient solution to this problem! For heavy rockets, it might be required to use structure to space the gears away from the body to allow more pitch. Cure: Draw a mental axis from the nose to the tail of the plane and use the rotate tool (summetry on), on one of the wheels. - Make sure you have enough control authority to lift the nose up. After that, you face the challenge of touching down on the ground and coming to a stop safely without rolling and breaking off a wing or taking a nosedive and blowing your aircraft up on touchdown, or rolling off of the runway and into the ocean.